Read the rules...that's the first thing they teach you in showing a horse...so for this blog I must insist that everyone respect everyone else...don't care about your language, just no hammering on someone because of how they may do things...I hope this blog will help everyone who goes to a show with their horse will understand that there are certain things to do and ways to make it as fun as it should be, as well as making it a competition to see just how well you are doing with your horse at home. I do not want to play moderator so here's my request at the start...
I love pictures, lots of pictures...lots of advice...lots of stories about what went wrong, what went right, and about horses (or mules or minis...whatever equid you show). This is not a blog to hammer trainers (my daughter s a trainer) or judges but please do relay stories of good and bad instances...no names please...
What shall we talk about? Horses and showing, what you do to prepare, how you practice, working shows (been there done that and wish I had better computer skills!!) tolerating politics, short cuts, tips, tricks, training, clothes, and all the fads...Let's hit it!!!
24 comments:
Hello hello hello!
I've been riding for all my life...first thing my mom did when she got married was buy the horse her daddy never would buy for her, so I was riding before I was born. I don't know life without one, I even took mine to college when I could. I've been showing since I was 11, though there are times when I see that person on the wrong diagonal in Hunt Seat Eq get first place that I wish I had stuck to gaming...still, the early morning smiles, horses all dolled up, shiney coats, new Stetson hats, rhinestones, silver, hurry up and wait...I love horse shows. I've competed, judged, managed, ran the office, ring stewarded (is that a word? It is now!) and been a plain ol' spectator at a gazillion of the things. What's your favorite thing about horse shows??? And for that matter, what's your least favorite?
MY MOST favorite thing is the feeling of major accomplishment when I have done something my horse never knew how until *I* taught her...and we won or placed high in the class! Knowing the judges are really someone I admire and respect and they thought I shined head and shoulders over the younger cuter skinnier babes on 6 figure horses...
My least favorite is FORGETTING something I DAMN sure KNEW was in the pattern or my horse doesn't wanna at the wrong moment and we come apart at the seams...
I LOVED the comment 'early morning smiles'...I cannot imagine a morning without a welcome whinny from one of the kids, even at a show...they know they have a full day ahead of them and they still have their ears up!
It's me the Horse Show Hag!!!
Age 52,been riding since age 3 and with horses all my life.My thing is anything Hunter related but must clarify (but don't mean to offend)Real Hunters...as in Working Conformatiion,Amatuer Owner,Actual Field Foxhunters,not what is portrayed as Hunters in AQHA/APHA/ApHC.Perhaps this is what you can help me wrap my mind around.....they are so NOT Hunters and if they move like that I can't imagine them being able to jump a course or hunt for 4 hours.I just don't get it at all.They mostly all do look like WP horses in English tack and it's so not correct or pretty.
Anyway back to why I think this blog is a great idea.Due to aging and some serious physical injuries I'm not supposed to jump anymore(yeah OK)but being a realist I have scaled back my jumping and have found other fantastic ways of getting my horseback fix.The husband raises Angus steers and we have always moved them with our trusty TB's.I am very intrigued by the Working Ranch Horse Shows(do you even call them shows?)and think Team Penning looks like it is really FUN and competitive.I'm also pretty sure that like in Hunters if it looks easy it's probably really NOT till you know what you're doing.I would love to learn about more Ranch Horse related stuff as both husband and I really enjoy Trail Riding,and are pretty good hands with horses and cattle.
I have been actively breeding,showing and competing in Hunter/Jumper for the past 40 years.I also held my track credentials and cards in 3 states for TB racing but mostly to fund my horse show habit all along.
I too simply LOVE,LOVE,LOVE anything related to going to a horse show regardless of if we win anything or not.For me it's always been about the love of riding and competing and getting better at something I really love to do...winning or placing is just the icing on the cake.
Yeah I have always thought HUS for the stock breeds was a poor excuse of a representation of a TRUE hunt seat horse...When I was a kid it was separated from the western horses and the english horses but hey, I too, am 52 and lots of chit has changed over the decades...in APHA you MIGHT have a fairer chance of showing your horse all-round but in AQHA woe to anyone who may cross over and try to do both...When I read The Chronicle (a Florida-based stock horse mag full of ads to impress the judges whenever there is a huge show like World (AQHA/APHA/ApHA) coming up) there will be people showing how they must have THREE horses to show...One for patterns, one for huntseat, and one for western pleasure. Jeez I could not begin to keep track of every one!!
Yeah I am not supposed to ride either...let alone barrel race or do poles...I count my years like this: if I play my cards right and carefully, I have about 30 years left to show...*LOL*
OK but if you need 3 different horses for an "All Around" title or ROM or whatever you show for doesn't that defeat the whole purpose of an "All Around" horse?I remember when the AQHA valued the workability and versatility of the breed so an All Around titled horse was ONE horse that was great in several areas.
And what the hell is up with the fake tails??? I have a friend of mine who shows AQHA and she has what looks like hair extensions for her horses tail!!!I about peed myself laughing.
Since becoming somewhat of a handicapped rider I no longer start my own youngsters under saddle.I can't take the risk of getting launched and permanently crippled.I send my 3 yr.olds to 2 sisters who were NHS Rodeo Champions as kids and they start them and put 60-90 days of real riding on them then I finish them and get them going in the show ring.I'm still really solid as a rider but the husband gets all worked up about the jumping.There is no way I could or would ever give up riding!!
Good idea for a blog! I'll check back often :)
The idea of an all-round breed is long gone unless you do have one of those really talented AQHA horses that has the "look" the judges want to see...
I have fake tails...they balance the over-all look of the horse...we put them in first thing in the morning, take them last thing at night...they really compliment the horse...What I WILL NOT do (as so many people do) is kill the tail...it is mind-blowing to see a horse relieve himself and the poop is just falling out of the bottom of his tail as he cannot lift it any more...Drugs rule. (sigh) I refuse to win that way...My daughter bands for a lot of the people that show and we can walk around the stalls late at night(when she usually bands) and horses are tied up for the night...I want OUR horses to get a good night's sleep! I cannot imagine being made to stand up all night in one place and be expected to show all the next day...Now I know horses can sleep standing up but RELAX tied to a wall? I truly doubt it!
I don't think I even want to know about what "kill the tail" means or WHY anyone would do that.
Never thought the banding of manes looked very nice but then I'm so OLD SCHOOL....it's sewed in braids and nicely done tails or it ain't a Hunter!!Is the banding of manes done for other classes other then HUS?There is so much I DON'T know about the stock breeds showing.
Seriously though...because of that last statement I NEVER mean to insult or offend anyone.I'm just very curious about these shows and the reasons for why.In my world of H/J despite the obvious differences of people with vast amounts of $$$ and time to do nothing but show and those of us who have to work to support our horses and show around a work/family/real life schedule the competition is what it is and is judged for the most part on the best ride/performance overall of the horse and rider.
Hunters is very different from Jumpers and judged differently.Hunters are judged on Equitation on the flat and overall perfomance after 2-3 rounds of jumping a course,with course changes for each jumping round.Jumpers is simply the fastest time with no faults wins.Eventing combines all 3 skill sets Dressage,Stadium Jumping and Cross Country and all on the SAME horse on the same day.
I have never been to an APHA show but I have been to several AQHA shows and I was really apalled at the presentation of the HUS horses and riders.The riding was really BAD and not what it should be at all!!The WP was even worse as hardly any of the horses looked SOUND to me.I can't believe they pinned people who did not CANTER...it's a 3 beat gait ...not 4!!!How can anyone call 4 beating a CANTER or a LOPE let alone judge that as acceptable??
WoooHoooo. Controversy. That makes us interesting.
Ok. So I show Paints and have friends who show Quarters and Appys. My horses are Hunters, mostly because that's how my horses are bred and we are more specialized now..we can add that TB in there and still register them. I showed back when people did everything on the same horse, from halter to gaming to jumping and there are people that still do, however that takes a very, very special horse. Mine can't jog to save her life...sure, if I held her up and drove her with my body and a bunch of leg like a dressage horse, I could hold her together enough to get a jog, but it doesn't look pretty or comfortable and takes a bunch of work..and that is not what Western Pleasure is about, so we don't even try that class. But I still show for the All-Around, as we can do Horsemanship, Trail, Western Riding, Showmanship, HUS, Eq, Hunter Hack, Working Hunter, and she drives. Our All-Around is still One horse-one Rider. Those people you see with two or three horses, can NOT get the All Around awards. They just have more money than sense.
We braid, with yarn and the whole works, for our Hunters. At the smaller shows, we might not take the time, but at that bigger shows, always. Banding is for the other classes and was started to make the neck look better...and it does. Some manes are going longer. The 2006 World APHA champion 2yo WP horse also did reining and had a neck-width long mane that didn't need banding as the weight held it down.
We do use fake tails. It's a laziness issue, I admit, but also for those horses that can't grow a long, thick tail. A lot of tails are "fixed". I don't personally condone this, but it does completely change the appearance of the horse. If done "properly" it's an alcohol block that wears off in a few months. The tail is fairly mobile, just harder to use and with the weight of the fake tail, holds it down. I saw both the fake tails and very surgically fixed tails at the local big time Hunter/Jumper show. Speaking of which. The Hunters, especially on the flat, looked just like the better HUS horses at the APHA shows. Level necks, noses slightly out, long, slow sweeping strides. That's our goal. Can they all do it? Not so much. However, what we do get is not easy. I know that sounds stupid to some of you, but it takes a lot of work. However, if you see our good ones, you don't see slow forward motion, just slow legs and you don't see anything on the front end. Can you do that to your Hunter and leave his head alone?
Western Pleasure is the same. We WANT a cadanced, rocking chair gait. Can they all do it? NO. Is some of it faked up? Yes. Is it easy..no way. You wouldn't believe how hard we work to get that herky jerky lope :-) Still, have you really watched the winning horses and counted with the lope? The goal is for the horse to hold himself up on that outside hock until he can get the inside one way up underneath himself and not fall on it but set it down. All the time with no contact on the bit. Not easy. If done right, there is no four beat to it. And of course they don't CANTER in WP. Canter is not a WP gait. Lope is.
I have to agree that the crawl...that very slow walk...is stupid looking. But...the rule book states that the jog must be faster than the walk and when your jog is soft, hesitating and slow, your walk has to be really slow. Just the way the game is played.
Now, one last thing. My horse is tied the whole time she's at a show. She's at work there and needs to keep her mind on work. She gets loose when she's done. She has food and water in front of her at all times. Her stall is not a wonderful place to go. What happens then is they get in a hurry to go back there. Even in the middle of the class. Do I think it is cruel? Not in the least. If you do, you might want to go check out the horse of the NYPD that live 24/7 in a tie stall. Or horses that live on a picket line.
On the other hand, my horse is tied so that she 'can' lay down. Tied so that the head must be held up at all times (hung it is called) is cruel and is punishable in all the above breed assoc.
Ok, I have gone on long enough. Hope I hit all the points. I in no way mean to be rude or anything, just educational and explanatory and possibly start some feedback for learning!
dusk9K,
No controversy or negativity intended on my part.Mostly I do recognize that I'm seeing and watching stuff I don't get and overall in both the HUS and WP classes that I watched at several AQHA shows the movement and overall picture of the horse and rider (IMO and for what I know) looked really off.
Are there different levels at AQHA/APHA shows?In USEF/USHJ there are rated levels with A being the highest level.And,where I do understand what you are trying to achieve with the lope for WP(when done correctly)I was definately NOT seeing it in the horses that were being pinned that day.There were others in the class that were WAY BETTER overall in movement,presentation,suitability.
I can tell you that I 100% understand that getting that pretty picture of a Hunter is so NOT EASY,it is what we Hunter crazies all strive for though.I get so many laughs whenever I encounter the "Oh,you do Hunters..that's nice,boring,but nice" looks and comments.People seem to think it is so EASY and it's NOT.It takes alot of work,time and dedication to make it look so easy and effortless.
And I had absolutly no idea that the CRAWL even exists and am now even more confused....My horses w/t/c,hand gallop when asked and jump.They have good conformation,good minds and are pretty capable at other things as well.How does one cue or ask for the CRAWL??I am humbled.
Well, Paints are broken down into divisions of Jr open (2-5yrs) and Sr Horse (5+). That's where the trainers ride mostly. Amatuer is for those not in Youth that make NO money in horses. The Youth is Novice, 13-Under, 14-18, and Walk trot 5-9. Other than that, we consider small local shows and schooling shows the training area, Open approved shows with year end awards the starter point for award winning, then Breed shows in the division of the horse (APHA AQHA etc) the goal. World Show awards, and Breed Association year end awards are the Wimbeldon, say, of Paints. Not everyone starts out small...some people jump right into the big leagues. If you have done your homework, this is ok, but riding your half-broke 2yo in a futurity worth 30K is a bit frowned upon. To me, it is like me taking three tennis lessons and entering the US OPEN. However, since we have no trials or qualifications, in APHA not even for our World Shows, people are free to waste there money if they want to. This causes some debate...and it tends to be the newcomers that think it is so political. People who can't see the difference between the home broke horse and the horse that has been at the trainer for three years. They just see that the trained horse has more silver on it or is expensive or soandso rides it. And until they can SEE the difference, you can't explain it to them. I do wish we had some kind of evaluation system that people had to go through to gain levels, but then, we probably wouldn't have as many people at our shows and they are losing money right and left as it is.
Ok, for the crawl, think basically doing a half halt between every beat of a the four beat walk. You teach them to back off the weight in the saddle or the spur stop so a gentle sitting deep motion causes the horse to hesitate, no bridle work needed. So they crawl along. :-) It looks kinda dumb but it is great for strict control. People don't work on the walk enough IMHO.
I have to say, I love going to the local Gran Prix (is that what it's called? They give out lotso money and jump great big jumps and people from all over come here to this really fancy barn/house)and watching the hunters and jumpers. I LOVE the ponies. My husband gets so bored at me watching ponies, LOL. Were I to do it all over again, that is what I would have done with my horses, but you get so much invested, set so many goals, it is hard to change. Still a great smooth go over fences just raises goose bumps on my arms, and looks so effortless and free. I know how much work goes into it, so I can appreciate the beauty. Dressage on the other hand, just looks like a lot of work to me!
Dressage IS alot of work but the horse benefits so much from the training it makes the other stuff easier to do.
OK we kind of do a reverse CRAWL if you will.We like the walk to be free flowing so you can really see the shoulder engagement as well as a big sweeping step.Long and slow is good and looks nice but if you can really get the step more engaged you get alot more looks from the judges.We call it "covering ground"at the walk and "daisy cutting"at the trot.And when I say more engaged at the walk I mean just that....not transitioning up to trot with quickness of pace.
God I too LOVE freakin ponies!!!If I had not grown up in height and unfortunately girth nowadays(LOL)I would so still be riding ponies.My ideal is a Dappled Gray Connemara/Welshor Connemara/TB cross.
What do you think of those -leg-stabbing-in-the-ground- lopes? I was horrified the first time I saw one particular trainer...that is her signature around here, riding that kind of lope...of course it didnt place (thank God!). Ruined more good horses by teaching them to 'suck back' too much...And then there is the side-ways lopers...I was at a HUGE Georgia show and they had just ruled that side-ways loping was not to be used but here comes (mumble mumble) and she lopes her NAME BRAND 2 yr old down the rail so sideways he could have knocked over a judge, and she places top three...ARGH! I HATE western pleasure! Some of these people have created such a dismal ideal of how people look at stock horses...they really do like to travel low and slow but when the trainers try to make them LOWER and SLOWER it DOES make them look stupid...and in the rule book it says the walk shall be flat footed and not this one step, and then one step, okay and another step...I almost sh*t the first time I was in a western pleasure class when this became THE fad and passed people creepy crawling down the rail at a walk...where the hell have I been?
So right now we are on a no show mentality...I am sick of being beat by the dead tails and the drugged horses...They DO wake up and became a major danger...and how the hell can you kill a tail and think no one sees it? BECAUSE APHA doesnt reinforce the rule...When I was managing the florida Painthorse club, when I filled out application for shows I had to sign an agreement saying I would abide by the APHA rules for tail and drug testing...in three yrs NOT ONCE did anyone ever test a tail, let alone stick a cup under a tail...WTF!?
Talk amongst yourselves ladies...I have no idea what you are referring to...WTF are "side ways lopers"???
Back to some of what I do Know...Dressage is really pretty great stuff and has all kinds of applications to other types of riding. Do you ladies trot collected as well as extended?That is basic dressage....what about your circles??Reining patterns have alot of basic dressage movements and distances involved.
Even I would suppose the "CRAWL" would qualify as it takes holding and placing of the foot on a cue or cadence based on seat and weight distribution correct?
In your training do you flex,bend,leg yield,shoulder in,turn on the haunches/or fore,side pass or half pass?All dressage basics as well.You may be surprised at what you already know!
luvmytbs, not 'noring ya...sideways lopers are EXACTLy what they sound like...horses moving at excruciating slow speeds SIDE-WAYS as that makes them shove that leading foreleg out further (flat mover is the term) and SLOOOOOW down...looks as bad as it sounds...I am sure you got some freaky weird movers some trainer developed since it didnt have it naturally? What humans do to a horse to shove it into a hole that isnt horse shaped is tragic!
I watched some video on YouTube about how cruel hunt seat, dressage and jumping is...probably put out by some fool from PETA...I wish it would reform somewhat ALL OVER...the cruelest people are the ones who seem to have an endless supply of prospects and show for a paycheck...
Oh yeah...we do use basic dressage moves to school and train...I flex my kids (their bodies are very much like a humans and their muscles need conditioned too!) I use my legs to collect, and the prettiest thin is being able to do it without moving your reins...
I also do a lot of counter-cantering as it teaches a horse to lift and control his shoulders, esp. in circles...
I do a lot of forehand turns, turns on the haunches and sidepassing just riding around the farm here and also in trail class. Dressage is an awesome thing to base a horse's training on!
hdcvhiShow for a paycheck!!!Now why haven't I thought to do that??I pretty much just do it for the self challenge and evaluation of my kids (horses)for comparison to what those paycheck earners have at the same shows.I don't put alot of foals on the ground due to being so picky about what I breed for...Talent,Temperament,Soundness/Conformation and Versatility.My Hunters that I show at A&B rated events are the same horses husband and I will hit the trails on and move the steers with.They can also hunt with hounds over some tough terrain and BIG natural fences.They cross water,slide down some hills and can haul ass when they need to.Not many of my friends with the big $$$$ Show Hunters would ever dream of doing that with their horses.My horses are REAL horses for the most part.They are turned out with their buddies and not kept stalled with boots,wraps and slinky's on all the time.But that's how I do it and I think my horses are more sound,sane and happy because of it.
There are good and bad in every aspect of horses at every level.Some born out of ignorance MOST born out of GREED and for the $$$ instead of love for the horse and the sport/discipline.I hold out hope continually for those of us that do it for love.
I think it's funny that my idea of a sideways lope is different. I mean, it's the same thing, but we on the West Coast call it asking for the hip and bringing the inside hind leg up. Yes, it forces the inside foreleg to reach up farther too, but here it is all about the hip. For awhile they were really curled and the idea was to have the outside hind further into the pen than the inside front leg and the spine bent. Now at least they have the spine straightened out.
I have had the chance to ride a World Champion Pleasure horse. He is huge, like 16.2hh and 1500lbs and Halter bred of all things, but he can lope, perfectly cadanced and rocked back all day at 0 mph. He LIKES to do it. So the trainers tend to think that all the horses need to go that slow. You know, I had a 17.1hh horse that was very talented--crazy but talented, that's another story--and when I broke him, he hated to trot out, so I broke him western. He 'could' do that slow lope, but if you kicked it up a notch it was just prettier and felt better, so I would just bring him off the rail and let him lope. He was a Superior WP horse in no time and that's in classes of 25 in JR horse against the big time trainers. If they have it to look at, the judges will use it. Maybe not all the time, but some of them are old...sigh. Besides, what do you do when all the horses are doing that herky-jerk chop thing?
Oh that stories I could tell and I could go on and on. I do get frustrated some...I mean, I had a great little, little horse for awhile, bought him in Florida actually! and he was the cutest Hunter--in fact, that's his job now--but I couldn't buy a HUS point on him, cause he was short. WTF? He's still a Paint. A Halter Point earning Paint. He moved like a Paint should. Of course, he was Tobiano too...sigh.
I have to totally agree tho, we all go back to the basics of Dressage as it is horsemanship. However, when I can do a complete Western Riding Pattern on a drape rein, I see no reason for all that pulling, lugging and body movement. What's up with that? We need to combine them all together!
If you're seeing pulling,lugging and alot of body movement IMHO you are seeing poorly executed dressage.I was taught that if done well it should be subtle and an effortless communication between horse and rider.Alot of what I have seen lately looks really overexaggerated to me(pushing/driving w/seat and rocking leg aids)to which I say WTF!!That's not how I was taught anyway but I really only studied and passsed up to 2nd Level testing.
Hey are we the only 3 who wonder and care about this stuff??
Seems like it...
Hey I worked a hunter/jumoer show last friday night as part of my membership in the saddle club I belong to...my first time at the check in gate. Had to read coggins and make a log of everyone's accession numbers etc...One guy came in there with like ten horses and couldnt come up with teh coggins on 3 of them. So my boss called the vet to get the numbers and he said that this particular guy was sleazy and to be real careful around him! I was shocked! So was my boss! She had never heard of a vet relaying that kind of info...I had already worked my hours so I do not know what happened but I guess there is slime at all levels of the horse show world. I know a lot about the stock horse people. Not QH but paint and appy; some of the big names bullied their way into that position...Is it the same in other seats too?
Yup it is!!In H/J the slimeballs that are the worst seem to always have $$$ but are really shits in some way or another.You would not believe the # of people like that that have absolutly BEAUTIFUL horses and they are just things to them or they just have them and use them for the"social status"or business connections.Then you have these riders and trainers who are really good but they try and cheat or save $$ by not having coggins for all the horses they take to a show or they somehow don't have the check with them when it's time to pay the entries and close out.I see it ALL the time.Then they get all indignant with the show staff when they get caught or called on it.
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